So in my Nazi Germany class this week ,a bizarre conversation got started and I need to vent about it. The discussion was about whether or not a current generation can be held accountable fr the misdeeds of previous generations ago, be it a decade, a century or a millenia. Obviously this was about the Holocaust, but it stepped into Slavery and other such historical sore-spots. We were arguing whether the past gave certain advantages to certain groups (i.e. the victors in any given situation), and whether or not we should feel bad about that in the present day. It is a really interesting idea, and something that has been kind of mulling around in my head. Please let me know waht you think about that idea, or leave any questions for clerifications.
I thought I’d leave you with teh thing that I write in class while this debate swirled around me. I have some really, really smart classmates, and it was neat to hear their different ways that people tackled this problem. Anyway, here is what I wrote in class:
“Are advantages given to us through the upsetting of norms in society because of the dominance of the majority, because of the subjugation of people through the past, a reason for us to feel bad? Are they reasons for us to feel bad about things that our people have done in the past? Absolutely not, I think.
One cannot be held responsible for the crimes, excesses, and or issues of their grandparents. If this were true then farmers everywhere would be held responsible for the pain and suffering of the feudal serfs during the agricultural revolution. If one were to be held against the misdeeds of their forebears then those who live in America would be held continuously to task against the gains made by our country on the backs of the poor and the enslaved from Europe during the 16th century immigration to the Americas.
One has to be cognizant of the fact that there is a big difference between a tacit recognition of a crime, (a public knowledge of a wrong, known trauma to a people) and the need for an apology, or specially reparations, for the actions of our forebears. If a people is required to be continuously inundated with negative opinion and derisive attention regarding things that happened before they were even born, then there is no real way for them to acknowledge the issue, learn form it, and move on to fix what they see as a problem in their collective psyche or history. Continued depression, guilt, or feelings of responsibility over the past would render a people impotent to grow and basically hold the entirety of humanity responsible for the bad things that have happened since the birth of civilization (and possibly before, if one were to take into account inter-tribal atrocities long held in oral and collective memories).
While there is the possibility of apology on a governmental scale (the issue of slavery rings loudest here), I will not be held accountable for something that happened before my ancestors were even in the country. I believe that yes, slavery happened, and it sucks that it happened, a lot, but I feel no need to apologize for it. Likewise I do not believe that the people of Germany should be held responsible for things that happened during WWII. Those few of that generation who are still alive can be made to pay for it, but something tells me that due to the continued attention given to it they do pay, in a multitude of ways. But how can a people grow and get beyond a tumultuous past if they are forced daily to live in it?”
That is what I wrote. I feel that I have to clarify some things about it, but I have to go to a concert so Ill fix it later.
I think this is a wonderful and thoughtful post.
I do wonder, though, whether you’re mixing questions of guilt and of justice. I agree completely, for instance, that it makes no sense for anyone to feel guilty about the actions of others, particularly long ago, or for whatever advantages they may inherit when they’re born into this world.
It’s another matter, however, to suggest that we shouldn’t do anything about advantages we’ve inherited. If those advantages are unfair, the result of historic wrongs, doesn’t it make sense to address them?
I like that you focus on not having negative feelings, and avoiding inundating others with negative attitudes, because of the past. Especially because I agree that can be counter-productive to acknowledging the past, learning from it, and addressing the legacy of the past today.
I’m just not sure how you conclude that it’s also bad to address issues like apologies or reparations. Granted, it doesn’t make sense for individuals to apologize for the actions of those in past generations. But the apology movement in the U.S. today is about apologies from institutions which contributed to slavery and still exist now. And while I don’t believe in guilt over inherited advantage, how does that mean such unfair advantages shouldn’t be addressed?
Finally, you write, “how can a people grow and get beyond a tumultuous past if they are forced daily to live in it?” In a sense, that’s very true. But it’s important to recognize that the descendants of the victims may be forced to live daily with the legacy of that past. If that’s true, then it’s hardly inappropriate for everyone in society to address that problem, is it?
Thanks for listening!
James
while i very much enjoyed reading your post, jeremy, and tend to agree almost fully with much of what you said, james has made some very good points as well. i would like to comment on this post as soon as i can, but today is not going to happen as i worked ALL weekend at my parents and my mind only seems to be able to focus on being able to look past how sore i am to move my limbs. i PROMISE you will get a somewhat intelligent response from me in the very close future.
Very interesting post,
It is however always hillarious that in almost each discussion of this subject it always ends up with two events,HITLER AND SLAVERY.
Should other generations be held responsable for those actions?…absolutly not!!
I have no reason to apologize to any of them,I didnt kill jews and I didnt own slaves..Yet many of both of these groups feel that they are entitled to special treatment just becuase of what their dead ancestors suffered at the hands of the ancestors of others.
It is that attitude that has caused so much resentment amoung people just on the basis of YOUR GREAT GREAT GREAT GRAND DAD owned/killed MY GREAT GREAT GREAT GRAND DAD so you owe me money an apology and some cash!!
HITLER AND SLAVERY way are these the top two??
Doesnt anyone mention that After 1,400 years of jihad,Islamic fascists have killed more than 270 million people?
They have killed more than jews.hitler and christians combined,do they owe an apology to the rest of the world?…do you actually think they even feel bad about it?
If you look back through all the atrocities in history like hitler,muslims,jews,christians,ect you will find the one driving force that compeled them to slaughter people,enslave people,oppress people ect.
That one force is religion!!!!
Unfortunately, religion has produced the most violent actions against man in the history of humanity.The burning of competing Christian cults (called heretics) by early Christian churches acted as the seeds of violent atrocities against man. There later followed the destruction of Rome by the Christian Goths, and the secret pagan sacrifices consented by the Pope, the Vandals that had the Bible with them as they destroyed imperial North Africa, the crusades in the eleventh century fighting in the lands around the eastern Mediterranean, Palestine and Syria, capturing Jerusalem and setting kingdoms from Anatolia to the Egyptian border. In 1204 the Fourth Crusade plundered Constantinople the most holy city at that time, with Christians fighting Christians. And the slaughters continued (and continues to this day).
One only has to look at the religious wars around the world to see belief’s everlasting destructive potential. One only has to look at the Protestant-Catholic uprising in Ireland, the conflicts in the middle east with Jews fighting Moslems & Christians, the Gulf war, Sudan’s civil war between Christians and Islamics, the Bosnia conflicts ect. The desperate acts of fanatical individuals who have killed for their beliefs of Jesus, Mohammed, God or Satan would create a death list unmatched by any other method in history.
Religion has been and will continue to hold mankind back from its true potential.
I dont see how anyone with any common sense could feel guilty about something they didnt do or had any control over.
Guilt is what they want you to feel,so you will feel sorry for them and think that reparations should be made.
This is common amoung those who like to continuosly think of themselves as VICTIMS….When in fact if we look hard enough we are related to someone somewhere at sometime who was a victim and related to those who were the perpatrators of victimization….
SO LETS JUST GET OVER IT AND MOVE ON….stop playing victims and acting like we are entitled to anything but what we do right now…